Whites - can we get it?

[iyah360]

Greetings.

The reasoning that ensued in the thread "Who to Blame this Time" on the Africa Speaks board http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1099507892 - has brought to light (to me anyway) a pertinent question. That is, can whites have an effective analysis of the issues that can be of any benefit to people of color? Perhaps we are too entrenched to be able to confront all the blindspots, assumptions that our privilege gives us. Plus, if our egos get in the way, it is very hard to see when someone points out a fault(a tendency to see it as an attack rather than constructive criticism.)

If this is indeed the reality, what is workable and what is not? Is it indeed more fruitful to accept the state of the white mindstate and work out solutions in spite of it, or do ones think there is any hope in reaching at least some whites? Where does this leave whites in relation to the scheme of things - what is the most beneficial application of ones who are at least trying to get it right?

[Tracey]

A willingness to check one's self in light of better information is a good place to start.

In highlighting a quote mentioned from the A/S thread on the other board ...this line speaks volumes and gives pause for greater reflection:

Ayinde

It is only excellent when people stand on integrity, and challenge the wrongs from there

From that reference point..much is possible, and brought much meaning to the essence of the word.

How is it that we can describe despicable and murderous character as "genius" or "brilliant" or "excellent" if not sitting far removed from the harsh realities that many are left to experience while we sit back and critique the strategy?? Hmm... that one made some scales fall from the eye. Yes..it is a comfortable position that affords us a place to sit and pontificate "intellectual analysis" while those on the recieving end would hardly use such descriptives.

How we interpret our views does indeed stem from much social conditioning. What we have to remember is that we are "products" from the very same system we claim to be turned off by. We can choose what we want to keep, and dismiss the rest while still benefitting from the totality of it. No matter how we try to distance, or re-fashion ourselves, we STILL are a variant form of the same thing, and will be influenced by it in spite of our attempts to see things differently.

It is always interesting to observe the wrongs as percieved in "others." Yet - what we tend to project onto others as wrong, is often the very thing we despise hidden within ourselves -  just we choose not to see it and bury it deep. That does not mean we are forever banished from "getting it," obscured by our own deceptive tendancies...just there is alot of hard hard work to clean up the crap in order to refine our characters, so when someone is bold enough to call us out on our biases..we can be humble enough to recieve the necessary critiscism without taking it as an "attack."

can whites have an effective analysis of the issues that can be of any benefit to people of color?

I think if we are truly to be effective in anything, we have to first accept who we are, and try to understand how that affects "our analysis" in light of historical and universal truths.

If we are willing to speak from the reference point of integrity - then everyone benefits...and ALL can get it.

[iyah360]

more reasoning on this topic.

http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1099677079

[iyah360]

I think if we are truly to be effective in anything, we have to first accept who we are, and try to understand how that affects "our analysis" in light of historical and universal truths.

If we are willing to speak from the reference point of integrity - then everyone benefits...and ALL can get it.

Accept who we are, yes. How many whites are willing to do this crucial step though? Perhaps it comes down to optimism of pessimism as to  whether we see this as a possibility of happening on a large scale. Who will change to effect positive change if at first they don't see a root to a problem? This was part of the reasoning behind my questions - in light of the possiblity that many whites simply won't come to the insight, where does this put the ones trying to get it, how can we best work? Just so I am not misconstrued, this is not a question asked out of pessimism, it is in the HOPES of trying to face the reality so that the workable theory of forward action is not caught in the realms of delusion.

Any insight?

[Tracey]

It doesn't matter how many are willing...the ultimate question is...are YOU willing?

We can only start with ourselves.

We cannot be effective on a larger scale if we do not first have our own house in order.  And there is much housecleaning and work to be done before we even get out the door.

If we are constantly trying to chamelionize ourselves onto other cultures because we have cut ourselves off from our own...we will miss the greater aspects of who we are.

We have a specific work to do in this lifetime that utilizes every bit of our "authentic" experience. It def has a critical place within the grand scheme of things..and offers a necessary perspective to put things in their rightful order.

[iyah360]

If we are constantly trying to chamelionize ourselves onto other cultures because we have cut ourselves off from our own...we will miss the greater aspects of who we are.  

We have a specific work to do in this lifetime that utilizes every bit of our "authentic" experience. It def has a critical place within the grand scheme of things..and offers a necessary perspective to put things in their rightful order.

Please elaborate on this point. My view - I understand that it is futile to try to seperate the fact that we are white Americans from the reality that we are trying to get a grasp of. It is easier to convince oneself that one is seperate from the culture at large and declare that one is not part of the problem anymore.

Perhaps this is partly what feeds the idea of us and "them" - the focus on "them" takes the responsibility off of us.  When we talk about "them," perhaps it is a good exercise to critique our role that allows "them" to have the power that they do.

[Tracey]

Growing up in white America has left many of us running for the door in seeking more experiential depth from other cultures who offer greater understandings into the true nature of our spiritual selves.

It is from this perspective that many of us are willing to shed our own skins to try to and assimilate into another culture. Often adopting the same style and symbols in order to display our own sensitivities and longing to be included with what we see displayed when observing other cultures seemingly more in-tune with their higher selves. This is what I refer to when I say "chamelionize."..ie if one leans towards Chinese/Eastern understandings, often Oriental symbols are represented and displayed, and surely we can say that about Rasta, African, Egyptian, Indian and others...just the cap never quite fits.

Though all of this is understandable..and sometimes even necessary...there will come a time when you hit that wall. Where you cannot walk any further and are faced to recognize that no matter how much you yearn to bond with another culture...you are who you are and bear the markings of your own...even if you deliberatly choose another.

All I am saying is that no matter how far we think we are distancing ourselves from our own culture by adopting different symbols, values and even rhetoric from others..that we are still leaf and branch of the same tree. And even though we insist that we are a different tasting fruit, we must constantly deal with the conditioned reflexes that rise again and again and again from the root of it.

[iyah360]

agreed. i will also note that much of what we might mistake for our own is in fact derivitive of an older root. much of what western civilization claims to be its birthright is in fact stolen or co-opted from older and darker cultures.

what we are indeed conditioned by is the re-interpreted version of these older progenitors.

i do not see a problem with seeking out information on the older roots - it is through this experience that i feel we have the ability to start to see a unity that has been hidden from us for a long time(and by unity I don't mean some one love colorblind ignorance of the issues, I am talking about a unity of origins and a common human heritage that is in DESPERATE need of being acknowledged). now - the other side to this knowledge is responsibility and this entails much of what you are getting at - there is no way to divorce our experience and conditioning from the journey.

when i see Rasta - it is a symbol to me of something ORIGINAL. really what is the journey to Rasta but the realization of unshakable truths? if i then display symbols of Rasta with that OVERstanding, i don't think it is just a matter of trying to seperate from the reality of my upbringing. that is the thing with symbols - their meaning evolves as ones overstanding of the principles behind them evolve.

although the reality of my upbringing is catholic, i now see all the symbols employed therein and realize them to be from an older source, there is no way i could go back to seeing them the way I originally did. Rastafari is from the Nile Valley, the birthplace of the ideas behind Christianity. How can i go and fool myself anymore?  What is the root of Eastern ideas but from the source in Africa? binary systems, the root of computer technology - Africa again. Astronomy, science, etc -Africa Africa Africa. Now - I employ Rasta and symbols of Rasta as an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of this root. i don't employ the symbols of Rasta as perhaps others do as a sign of seperation and use it as a self-righteous soap box to castigate my fellow whites who in reality i am in the same boat with.