Print Page - time for change

It's been quite a time. With this election, a number of realizations, about cynicism, arrogance, and words versus work. The paralysis engendered by my point of view about things awakened me to a more pragmatic reality, because it really was too much for a body to bear. I feel like I've grown up or something.

What attracted me to Rasta after all is said and done was not hope, but an expression of my despair. So it wasn't utopian so much as dystopian.

How do we expect that the world we want to see (and that every one of us deserves) will materialize? For me, it was the vague idea that everything would fall apart, clearing the way for some unspecified something (Jesus coming down? "The Revolution"?--what's the difference?) that would make all things balanced and good.

What I heard Obama and his wife say time and again is that, although it is understandable that ones like us have become furious and disengaged, this is simply not acceptable. I believe 'the time to move' that I always expected has indeed come, in a surprising form I could not have imagined. Frankly I am astonished at myself. I see the folly of my angry disengagement and my resolution is to find my work and do it and not wait for anything anymore.

It's not about ceasing the criticism, or abandoning my sense of how things are, but about engaging in the debate, about tolerating the idea that inevitable compromise is not collaboration with evil, or capitulating to it, daring to see the world as it is, daring to dream a better one, and not expecting a whole lot after all is said and done. It is for each of us who care about such matters as justice and freedom and peace to get ourselves to work, without personal expectations or global ones either. This is how real stuff gets done. I think in the end this what it means that "the Kingdom will not come by expectation."

It is not about agreeing with Obama or any of that. It is about respect for the millions who aspire for a new day and expressed themselves by voting for the guy and joining in, rather than sitting bitching on the sidelines.

So I wrote this poem.

I wonder if others of my generation
Of a certain outsider persuasion
And political orientation
Find themselves, like me,
Midst unfolding epiphany
Entertaining thoughts so alien.

Ah the fury I have hurled
From my safe spot on the periphery
Among the other permanently disgruntled
Cassandra was the best face I could put on it
(At least my posterity would sing of me)

cynicism was the worst
with arrogance close behind
my fine mind’s eye blind

I am daughter to a man
Who at the age of 97 still longs to find welcome in a strange land
I read Malcolm X
Saw that he
And all other paradoxically pure products of America
Could belong to me
But that was about the best I could do
I resigned myself to alien-nation
Cultivated my righteous indignation
rejecting any thought of compromise
Calling it capitulation

Giving as little thought as possible
To how the work’s supposed to get done

I begin to understand my grief
How, like my father, I have felt orphaned
Beneath the fury a simple need to belong

The best thing about us is that we are everyone from everyplace
In some way that we scarce understand
And evidenced by this election (is it me saying this???)
We embody the aspirations of every person on the earth
This is nothing to be arrogant about
this confluence of history
should inspire humility
and a sense of grave responsibility

the reality has been decades of depravity
done in our name…it’s no wonder the wonks have become cynics,
others willfully oblivious, flashing our privilege
like badges of honor
these emblems of shame

so many of us undone either by despair
or by an apocalyptic idealism
that looks forward to the ruin of everything
as preface to a perfect world

right and left bump up in the dark

When I was young I looked around me at a loss
Imagining a time would come
And that we would know what to do

I choose now

the guy’s right to say
it’s not about him
it’s about a prodigal generation
putting its queer shoulder to the wheel
using what we know to manifest fruits
instead of sniping from the sidelines

both my grandfathers were anarchists in Spain
and I smile thinking how I get them all of a sudden
like most Spaniards they were down in the dirt realists
utopian visions not for them
it will not ever be okay
there will always be evils with which to contend
but today we act and work with hope
and yet hopeless also
just today we will do the hard work
of being good women and men
caring for our communities
amplifying the voices of the voiceless

not for justice like a flowing river
or righteousness like a mighty stream
but for the here the now the small decent gesture

one after another
and then who knows?

Hopeful, hopeless

It’s time for poets
Who revel in paradox

Better New Year to all,
Rootsiegal

*******It is not about agreeing with Obama or any of that. It is about respect for the millions who aspire for a new day and expressed themselves by voting for the guy and joining in, rather than sitting bitching on the sidelines.*******

So there we have it? We have overcome?

My how emphatically we acknowledge this act of voting which is nothing but buying into an empty, contrived, manipulated notion in the first place.

Just think about it for one second. Look at all of the accolades for JUST voting instead of the actual calling for and action of truthful fundamental change.

How is this person elected to the presidency to 'change' the evil processes that empower and perpetuate the folly that is prevalent in every corner of the known world? The problem is MALE SUPREMACY. White/male supremacy is just the "summa cum laude" of male supremacy. There still is inferiority complexes...there still is fear of annihilation...we have those in power worshiping ONLY that power...we still have ones who feel DIVINELY authorized to control, rule and dominate others. That is the American/Imperialistic/Elitist way. Is this president elect to change what the founders of this country believed in?

You mean to say that you wholeheartedly believe that somehow this illusional icon of choice will change or depower the structure?

If anyone I have ever witnessed, this Obama represents "the anti-KRST". The reason I say that is because the entire circus is one of change or to be specific, egotistical/material "resurrection" from the depths we have been plunged in instead of FUNDAMENTAL moral and conscious analysis.

How does this elected official and this associated circus help us look into our hearts as Americans, black or white, and truly assess HOW the US imperial regime operates and the costs.

How does this elected official and this associated circus cause ones to EMPATHIZE with the atrocities that MUST be done in order to attain the natural resources that we gluttons consume?

A revolution or truthful change begins from within. So far, it is obvious that this contrived hollywood production is about props and scenery.

There is ABSOLUTELY no change in the mindset or heartset of Americans except for the willingness to let a tan complexed person lead the way within the SAME BUSINESS AS USUAL.

In fact, NOW ones are absolved of any resistance by the fronting of complicit blacks (obama) and females (hillary).

The only thing that has changed is the FACE.
It is still a FARCE.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. For me, it's not about putting faith in politicians. For me, it's about stopping putting up my hands asking 'what's to be done'? It's about doing. Speaking only for myself, I found that the point of view you express, and that I too have expressed many a time, has its own fallacies (namely, that 'they' are exquisitely organized, have a lock on the planet, and so on) and had tied me up in paralysis, when, face it, there are good people doing good things every day who are every bit as smart and in the know as you or me. Because they are not apocalyptic revolutionaries like I was, they are content to do what is in them to do, and not expect miracles. There are plenty of voices interrogating imperialism. They have not succumbed to cynicism and despair.

I don't think Obama is a phony, I don't think his wife is a phony, I don't think the election was rigged. THERE I've said it. Plus I think they know a lot of what we know. Maybe I'll have to eat those words. That's okay.

Nothing is solved, nothing is saved, nothing is healed. But I think there's a window. Maybe it's my personal window. But I think there are a lot of people like me who are feeling it's time to come in out of the cold and fight for the world we want. With little hope of success. Which is also okay.

Symbols are important. Symbols matter. But in the end, it's our good faith efforts that are going to matter. Nothing else. My endless spinning and endless furious critiques have been betrayals of people who are looking for relief from the madness being unleashed on them. If we know better, we must demonstrate it.

I'm sick of being on the outside screaming in. And speaking for myself, this is a whole lot easier than actually getting involved, risking my coolness, risking being called a sell-out or whatever. There are times for revolution. But using some nebulous idea about the need for revolution as an excuse for doing nothing? For me, it's a pretty revolutionary thing to allow 'compromise' into my vocabulary, to actually look at history to see how things actually get done in this world, to contemplate putting my two cents in where I can.

It's not like I have forgotten all the things I know, or any of them. I'll tell you something. If the bastards have any intelligence, where the deep-cover operatives are is on the extreme left, fostering paranoia, paralysis, and arrogant cynicism.

So this is where I'm at. I'm not asking anybody for permission or trying to convince anybody of anything. This is about taking the guy at his word and bringing my best fruits forward. Maybe we'll be able to look back at this moment of history as the beginning of a turn-around. Maybe not.

I don't believe the great mass of people on this planet are just ignorant sheep. What this election clarified for me is the incredible yearning in people, some of them voters in the U.S. but by no means all, for decency and community. The horrors of these years, all of my adult life...I have never known different.

It’s sad and ridiculous that a dark-skinned black could not be where Obama is sitting. It’s absurd that the political discourse is so skewed that you can’t be elected president in this country unless you evince a great love for Israel. We have the opportunity now to engage these issues in context because of the very fact of Obama, the potency not of what he is perhaps, but of what he represents. I think he knows this.

Because we can't see absolute goodness descending on the earth should not stop us from working for better. Just better. I feel that my cynical take on everything has been incredibly arrogant, and talk about absolution…I put myself in an ideological position where action and hard dirty work are meaningless, where I could just sit back and watch the whole thing fall apart, with the self-satisfaction of feeling right. Layers and layers of privilege.

You are a black man. I have no right to lecture you about what you should do or not do, feel or not feel. I just know what I have to do, which is to gain a better sense of how stuff gets done, and do it. We need everyone’s voice right now. Rave on.

Greetings Rootsie:

I offer my words to display MY personal resistance to the popular "carnival" that everyone is having such grand ol' euphoric time with hope that either I may put into your midst a thought that may help you develop OR you may have a response that would help me develop. Either/or is a win-win achievement.

I give thankhs for the opportunity to voice on your forum.

*******All these years I've thought about what privileged whites should not do or can not do: my orientation is shifting to what we realistically and morally can and must do.*******

That is fair and understood but my question is when and how does what you must do involve acknowledging and the tearing down the pillars that gave those whites their privileges in the first place?

To my knowledge, white privilege derives from the concept of there being a privilege ranking order sanctioned by God in the first place (hierarchy). And this hierarchy posits a male in an authoritative pedestaled position instead of a communal encompassing relationship. As long as that universe-view remains intact, how can there truly be a change or reversal?

It actually whitewashes the ills because if a moral wholesome NON-white person is placed in the figureheaded position, it must be OK. (its like a rapist having a female defense attorney)

How does placing a black man in charge of white/male supremacy implementations trigger the resistance to said structure by whites...or blacks?

*******I wouldn't say 100 year-old black ladies in wheelchairs are indulging in neo-hippieism. You could argue that they're brainwashed.*******

Indeed but let us agree that the ATTITUDES behind the Obama phenomenon are WHOLESOME. Let us make that clear. Just as many white missionaries had prudent attitudes and wholesome intentions as the worldviews of indigenous people were being altered.

*******I would rather believe that a lot of people are intuiting a shift, and going with it*******

Of course there is a shift (psychologically) but as long as the ELEMENTAL ingredients of destruction and dissonance remain in place, how can the fruit contain anything different from the soils of the planting.

What real change is there if capitalism which needs classism which utilizes racism and sexism as pacification and placation for the middle ranks, still exists. In fact, a black and female face now strengthens the illusion by making it appear less threatening compared to a white/male.

It is not white/male supremacy because the visual leader is a white male. It is white/male supremacy because the implementations were initiated by AND benefit AND pedestal whiteness and maleness by whatever means.

Queen Victorian or Elizabethan England was still a white/male supremacist society. Queen Hatsepshut Egypt was still a male supremacist society.
Chief Wilie Williams' LA Police Department was still an imperial/fascist police state entity.

*******In a male-supremacist world, things like intuition are severely devalued.*******

Well, let us sight that it is deemphasized for sure but it has ALWAYS been known and utilized.

Obama is like Christianity. The spiritual instincts within us harmonize with the appearance and lip-service of those entities. But the HISTORICAL and FACTUAL basis come up similarly false and destructive.

As you realize, the key is to seek and grasp our consciousness of self/truth. Please tell me how Obama, as head of America for which it stands, would catalyze or indicate to the suffering masses, any form of self/conscious awakening?

No matter the president, it is still the EMPIRE of the Earth.

Were the artillery shells landing in Fallujah less painful or more steered away from civilians because we had a black female Secretary of State?

Were the Israelis softer/kinder to Palestinians during the time of Golda Meyer?

My argument is that Obama represents the PINNACLE of egotistical deception that will give the strength to OVERTAKE the entire globe.

CAPITALISM - CLASSISM - ECONOMIC MANIPULATION - NATURAL RESOURCE EXPLOITATION - GREED - GLUTTONY - WESTERN SOCIETAL ARROGANCE - MONOTHEISTIC SUPREMACY - INDIGENOUS/PAGAN DEMONIZATION - NATURE TAMPERING/IMBALANCE...on and on...

How are ANY of these things to collapse because of the President-Elect of the United States of America?

Sharing the wealth means sharing the complicity.

__________________________________________

Rootsie, if I may say, you are displaying HUMANITY. It is humane to WISH and WANT and HOPE and PRAY and HAVE FAITH for betterment and peace. But we MUST have fundamental rooting out of cancers before we can call the world benign.

The malignancy of white/male supremacy is now even stronger by deception and the preying on the good-spirited wholesome energies of the masses.

-always

Collapse: the erosion of the integrity of the support which causes a downfall.

What we will be apart of from Tuesday forward will NOT be collapse. It will be galvanization.

In your opinion, in what way would this new chapter DIMINISH this white privilege you mention?

In what way would this new chapter cause CONSCIOUS CHANGE, not to mention active change in the implementations of maintaining a capitalistic regime?

It is plain and simple, this society/nation is dependent upon the exploitation of lowers. That is how capitialism works. There is no vanilla or sweet way to operate an empire other than to serve the higher tiers and to bleed the lower tiers.

We will still have hierarchy.
We will still have class.

The only possible result will be ones gaining a sense of resurrection from the economic death that has been placed upon us. That way, we (most importantly, BLACKS) are on board and with minimal resistance as a smiling "son of an Afrikan prince" returns home to open arms as American bloodsucking corporate interests exploit the natural and human resources of Afrika.

He will get the Red Carpet. Let us overstand that the red carpet ritual comes from when the conquering nation's emperor would walk a path (parade) littered with the bloodied dead and dying enemy's soldiers.

YES, we need to appear united. What better way than to slip a "roofie" into the psyches of sleep sheep.

What better new age way of perpetuating white/male supremacy than by the faces of a BLACK and a FEMALE.

What better way to soften up the minds or Afrikans than to broadcast CNN and show hugging and hand-holding blacks and whites...crying 100 year old women...MLK and Obama portraits fused together...a BLACK MAN BEING CROWNED AS KING OF EARTH in living color for the world to behold.

What better way to appease someone than to give them what they want to see...themselves on top. Once someone has bought into hierarchy, you can control them by their externalization of their own egos.

THE IMAGE OF OBAMA AS PINNACLE IS EUPHORIC FOR ALL DOWNPRESSED.

OBAMA for blacks
HILARY for women

By 2012, they will concoct a similar carrot for Latinos.

What has REALLY changed except public deception/perception of a false peace?

BLACK LIBERATION is liberation for ALL. Please tell me what indicates this? Even enthusiastic and Obama worshiping blacks cannot look you in the eye and state that Obama represents LIBERATION. They just want the high of the drug, They know it is an illusion. Its just that truth does not hold much value when the ego dominates.

Its Aquarian new-age deception.

Pisces = age of external dictation and control
Aquarius = age of internal egotistical control. You are ruled by the indoctrinated mindsets of the previous age. No physical shackles needed.

Rose colored glasses only change perception, not reality.

I know what collapse means.

What I'm asking is how you envision that might play out in real life.

Capitalism in itself, as the idea that people have a natural right to the proceeds of the work of their own hands, is not bad. Wage slavery and monster capitalism, on the other hand, is.

Even in hunting-gathering societies, class and hierarchy are there to be seen, though in a much more humane form.

What will diminish white privilege first is willingness to engage it.

The only way this new chapter can promote conscious change is for conscious people to engage and try to move things along.

You can talk about new-age hippie crap, but what about utopian idealism, the idea that at some unspecified point in the future 'it' will 'collapse' in some unspecified way and usher in a new heaven and new earth? Sounds pretty far out to me. Although I freely admit that for many years that was exactly where I was at. And in the meantime, what is to be done?

I think the best thing for people of good will to do is to get in there and change the discourse, change how the game is played. They can only do that if they're willing to get in there. The alternative is unacceptable. To me. I don't feel a need to convince you about that.

I actually think that after all these years of the right-wing media sowing fear and paralysis, it's pretty refreshing to see some very media-savvy people using it to sow a far more affirmative vision. Neither you nor I can foresee how this is going to play out.

I believe the oppressed people of this earth are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. We are way beyond the time when a mere 'sense of resurrection' will count for anything.

In some ways, I may stand in the middle of what you both are saying. I feel ok with that. I have my opinions, but yet don't know much with certainty. Rootsie is tapping into a very important, basic thing in regards to what this is all about. There is indeed something just as whimsically Armageddon about waiting on an “apocalyptic collapse”. Even more so, a one-dimensional stance that “it is all a sham” actually gives power to the symbol you proclaim. To me, there is little difference than those who you sight as “obama worshipers” and yourself. You are just as frantic in proclaiming him the pinnacle of whatever. I don’t believe that…nor have I read Rootsie say that… and most of all I feel that there are many that feel the same way.
The end of supremacy comes in tangible work and yes, maybe boring, hard work. I mean look at all the Che memorabilia for ex…to be “down in the struggle” has come with its etiquette and fashion and sensationalization. I think that what Rootsie speaks of is actually addressing privilege… In this day and time, there is a privilege stance mirrored in the sensational revolutionary or all-star activist hippie with a blow horn chanting it’s all a setup. Most genuine work I have seen comes with little parade and fanfare… but is like lava circulating underground and erupting in spurts which may get mass attention do to the effects… but is only concerned in doing true to purpose in being a part of the natural force of the universe....rather than saying I know how the mystery of the universe works.

Now to speak to the symbolism, I do see it. Yesterday’s ceremonies illustrated the ideas of what we have come to know as symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation. Biden’s whole speech was centered on the architecture of the location…he used the symbolism of the architecture to speak to the history of the US and the people whose vision built it, the puppeteers of a nation… Obama, slightly contradictory to Biden, spoke about the people standing between the monuments that are the real root of the US… I felt that this part of his speech was a response to Biden’s and as such, I can’t help but feel it was an off-script statement. I do feel that Obama is not fully aware of his designed role in this and I think as he sees it fully… he will be assassinated and maybe that is the plan. I also can’t help but recall the Y2K celebration in DC and Clinton’s seemingly “out of left field speech” about a post-racial society (one of the last in his admin.). It seems that this now was priming for what was yet to come through the next Dem. Prez. But still, I know all I have to say is pure conjecture… just like Rootsie said we don’t know how this will all go.

Do we really need to? Is the power in one man or the ideals of the designers? Like Rootsie said … we can’t underestimate the intelligence and power of the people. Today, Obama is urging people to volunteer …to do real work in our society… I don’t think that is pretty curtains on the windows of the “illuminati master plan”. Instead I think that is a necessary move. Experience is a true life teacher. Most of what I have learned that I find valuable has been through experiences. Now, I do know the double-edge of this… on the flip side of the experiences of volunteerism is the do-goodism…missionary vibes… which exactly points to the work everyone must do in engaging in the dialogue. Ones who see this as an ineffective demise to supremacy would seem to be concerned about what is going on in their backyard? What is the tangible work we should be doing?

What we do know… is where we are. The discussions should be about how we continue to work within this new structure… or outside of it? Is working outside the structure possible? Truly, we are tied in it no matter how much we hate it. I think it requires savvy and fully knowing you don’t have to compromise and being willing to engage ideas. Infiltrate the infiltrators if you so say.
The work is there to be done like it has always been… it almost seems that the ones who think Obama a set-up are just as disabled as the ones they accuse because they give Obama the head position, give the power to the fever. We have to remain proactive rather than reactive. The course of work in dismantling supremacy thus far, cannot and should not be changed but furthered. Not everyone believes that we have arrived… actually I think the ones I encounter in my day to day tend to think the opposite. Sure this affects neo-liberal hippies and appears to be of their design. But how does this affect conservative or borderline conservatives/liberals? Have you had conversations with any?

I have found the real-everyday-work-dialogue changing, even slightly…Like “oh my, we are going to actually live up to diversity, we actually have to face those brown and black skinned people, what do we do?” The change Obama speaks about has been sort of ambiguous. I think this makes the ones I just spoke of uneasy and thus open to the directions people suggest change takes. I usually also don't tell people what to to do, but it requires ones like you, that share similar thoughts to be there saying what that change really means in dismantling supremacy. We have not arrived. Oakland, this New Years, broadcast it to the nation.

How do we work?… how do we utilize and further the dialogue rather than raving on symbols and set ups? That doesn’t feed or free people. Self efficacy frees people. There is tangible every day ways we can impact. This may be the necessary step to further the sight of the ones you sight as being wrapped in the symbols of illusion, by in some way leaving the room open to hope and tangibly utilizing new opportunities to tap into social changes Obama has said he wants to see open up. I don’t think “change” was solely the part of the ploy to get him elected. That dialogue is on the table and it will stay there as long as people keep urging for a better way… this may be a necessary step for the pressure to be lifted from people and thus be in the position to sight the tentacles/implementations of supremacy.

people have to be organized to affect change. other than that - it is empty rhetoric and it becomes a political tool preying on people's ineffectual "hopes" for change and places the burden of change on the symbolized "changer." i wouldn't say this is the sole plan/plot of the power structure though - as the interaction between the government and the governed is always a back and forth exchange, but many people have forgotten this. the level of consciousness and willingness to take steps in a better direction, the work on the ground is a responsiblity that is always on the people - there is not one example of meaningful change that benefits "the people" without the organization and groundwork of the people - this is how it works. government and vested interests will ALWAYS take advantage of a non-organized/lacadasical populace, that is its nature. i think it is up to "conscious" ones to recognize this and work recognizing this law regardless. the liberating thing about this recognition is that we realize how much power we DO have - something that "they" would have a lot harder time "governing" if more people realized it. and you watch how quick "they" try to contain the "change" when the "change" gets out of their hands. it is indeed a crisis of perception to a certain level. this is an avenue that needs to be fully explored.

i think the call for volunteerism is something that was in fact set in motion by the outgoing administration and i think it would be mis-informed to think that the incoming administration's calls for it have something to do with anything other than political expediency. we are going to NEED to do this more as things become "tighter" - we will NEED to recognize our resources amongst ourselves as the economy is changing. this DOES however open up a crucial space for us to recognize how much we can organize locally and make better, more active decisions about our lives and our communities. just as the bush administration opened people's eyes to the utter corruption of our system, the obama administration may open our eyes to our own power of not needing "them" to effect the change that we want. an empire is a full time job, and EVEN with all their surveillance and obama's "black widow*"(btw - how f'd up is THAT name for a big brother operation?), etc. - they can't control all the people all the time.

http://www.truthout.org/010709M (http://www.truthout.org/010709M)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9VGZjBQHr0s/SRbkAVNUtoI/AAAAAAAACU4/D_V698VmEo8/s1600-h/BlackWidow.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9VGZjBQHr0s/SRbkAVNUtoI/AAAAAAAACU4/D_V698VmEo8/s1600-h/BlackWidow.jpg)

they - the dominating ideology, the "philosopher-kings" want to take the credit for change, that is why they frame this "evolution" in the language of their symbolism. that is why there are ritualized "events" that occur at pre-determined times which then crystalize as focal points for "change." we however are no less than the stars - we are no less than "them" no matter what ideology they hold onto and try to make us feel different. reality is not what they say it is!

People have to be aware of the issues and then in an organized manner address them the best they know and through what means are accessible to them. While I feel it can be an effectual ways for change, organizations in particular are not necessarily needed to generate that change.
I look at the presidents as all along the same continuum. Not as a superman…and I have to say to me there is little difference between those that think he is/should be and those that are ranting about him not being. The issue to me is about the discourse taking place. Obama, as president, has changed the dialogue. Not made right or arrived “hallelujah”. MLK3 even said his father’s dream is not realized and to me that is exactly the “talking point” brought front and center with this presidency. Hope and change are not slogon by-gones of an election. I do feel people are going to hold the Obama administration accountable. Look at the Anti-Israel protests in Chicago a few weeks ago in which ppl brought it to the front steps of his home. Again, the dialogue is on the table: race, hope, change, no war machine… people have to engage and utilize the word "change" in the discourse.

Nothing has changed in regards to the work that needs to be done… the dialogue has shifted and it’s up to us to be in that dialogue. Leslie recently posted an excellent article about some of the issues. We have to keep talking about the work and the words and work at making changes in our own way, in our own day-to-day to dismantle supremacy… to me its rather old news whether or not this fits a sorcerer plan, of course it does (trilateral agreement/one world money/and actually I think a contrived "Utopian collapse" is the planned driving force)…but of course they don’t REALLY get to “win” in the end … call me stupid…but that’s HOPE isn’t it? Speaking of organization, I do think there is a “higher level” universal connection between people that is based in wanting the best for all, wanting to be their best, know what blatantly right and what blatantly wrong is, and see the true beauty in the world in which we live. That to me is the organization of change in which one can function in their immediate day-to-day life and if not, I can’t think of a better way to wait on the end of the utopian collapse fairytale… maybe ones would earn some points with Jesus on the side.
There was a current in which this election ran… could any of us stop it? Was it not the will of people even if misguided… how do we then “guide these zealots into the light?” BTW…Some people only wanted Bush out of there and are just pure ecstatic about that fact alone.
This exchange between the government and the governed has not always been an exchange. Slavery and the need for a civil rights and woman’s mov’t are just a couple of obvious examples. The last 2 elections sure didn’t feel like an exchange… People, misguided or not, have engaged in the politics, in a way it hasn’t been for a great while. We have to engage in the dialogue about the issues and move from the symbol. Can we change the symbol? Or Can we change the issues?
Volunteerism, once again I personally am not concerned with the man who brought it up or who initiated it…all on the same continuum. As well, I am not getting wrapped up in figuring their plan…so what. How should it go?... should be the question? I am speaking about the issue being brought front and center. The issue of volunteerism has been quite obviously tied to the Obama administration in the last few days and the dialogue generated surrounding it. It may very well be a means to prime the “unsuspecting masses” to be willing to go off and fight some more trillion dollar wars, scratch that…actually I don’t think so. I think people are smarter than that. I feel that the “stupid ones” might actually have a volunteer experience in a different area of life in which they have had no exposure and see the injustice and disparity and thus be moved to also join the dialogue about what necessary change may look like and subsequent action or at the very least …did a tangible task. Very few volunteers I know (guess what …some have been volunteering since Reagan…so where did it all begin?) are on the gig of “look see…what I am doing” but simply feel strongly about what they do. For all, it’s not some halfway side gig that ones do on MLK day or for Xmas soup kitchens. Most of everything I have learned from others that is lastingly valuable to me has been through the teachings of “volunteers”.

“this DOES however open up a crucial space for us to recognize how much we can organize locally and make better, more active decisions about our lives and our communities. just as the bush administration opened people's eyes to the utter corruption of our system, the obama administration may open our eyes to our own power of not needing "them" to effect the change that we want. an empire is a full time job, and EVEN with all their surveillance and obama's "black widow*"(btw - how f'd up is THAT name for a big brother operation?), etc. - they can't control all the people all the time.”

--- Exactly…… is that not a first step…a “change” in discourse?

Quote from: Rootsie on January 20, 2009, 08:06:28 PM

I recommend Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Disaster Capitalism. She really got me to thinking about whether really its' ideology that moves these you know what's, or simple old-fashioned greed. They came up with the whole "Neoconservative Movement" rhetoric. Good cover story.

I was not referring to the Bush administration/neo-cons only when I said philosopher kings. I have read Naomi Klein's book. However American Empire or whatever it is morphing into is not a new thing having to do with these radicals - it has only been a means to a trajectory that has been in full motion for quite some time now. I was speaking more in general terms of the priest-hood class, to the ideals - enshrined in our nation's symbols, architecture, holidays, and events which have a very intentional playing out. As Starshyne pointed out - "symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation" - which harkens to the soul of this nation, symbolisms, ritual that are the stuff of the cohesive glue of the culture, just as they have been of all empires past.

Empire cannot be sustained without some sort of temperence, the dreams of the founding fathers, the dream of world civilization cannot be left to the whims of racketeers only, to greed only. People must actually believe in what they are a part of for it to work. It is not hard to LOOK good after all the steps taken by the Bush Administration. These are necessary good faith gestures, like re-arranging the living room to give it more feng shui. However there is NO indication that Obama intends to reverse the trajectory of empire - if you read the likes of George Soros and Zbigniew Brzezinski you understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

As Starshyne pointed out - "symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation" - which harkens to the soul of this nation, symbolisms, ritual that are the stuff of the cohesive glue of the culture, just as they have been of all empires past.

I pointed it out… I really just restated your main point. You are now putting a slight spin to what I am saying in your interpretation of my quote. Harken? What in the world does “harken” mean… a bit dramatic, heh? Harken…. To listen to attentively (Webster says so). So a freemasonry that listens attentively to the soul of this nation, symbolism…yadayada… a bit dramatic, not? … to make a point about how invasive and calculating they have been. I am not trying to fault dramatic… as I know my posts can be like so…. because I too like to choose words that generate feelings... but this does hit to the heart of the critique I am making… which is that getting stuck on the symbols…running around them…pointing at them…and finally regurgitating the same fear in the way of giving power through words such as “harold HARKEN angels sing”…its kind of like having a love for Horror movies…maybe I am biased, some ppl do…free will, as it is…but it’s a bit ridiculous when there is real work to be done and change is on the table of community dialouge …. Besides…if this is the case, I think they have failed miserably in having the symbols and rituals be “the cohesive glues that holds the culture together”. What American culture are you speaking of please? What is THE American culture?

i apologize if this is rather stream of conscious - i tried to organize it, but i had many thoughts and tried to relate it to things that were posted that may not flow - good feng shui? you decide!

harken - yes, i guess i'm all caught up in presidential power speeches, powerful oration, yadayadayada - oh the zeitgeist of it all! symbolism - i would say that pointing out something is not akin to having fear of it, it can just be a recognition of a reality. and no, they have not failed
miserably, from 9/11 to the crowning of Obama as the beacon of the achievement - unified in a common cause whether by fear or ecstacy and
the greatness of WE the PEOPLE(c). it IS being used as a part of who WE are, as a definition of WHERE we are at. THAT is our collective heritage,
our psychic energy focussed - it happens anytime a grand event happens, framed in the discourse of OUR common heritage. it is not just about how IN CONTROL they are either - it is an attempt to define our COMMON heritage in a certain frame - to maintain order within the grand scope of a large society, it is necessary to do this - it is the matrix within which culture is framed. we will find examples of this in any large scale society/empire - societies cohesion based around time, order, calendar, things in a due time and season. 44 years since voting rights - 44th president and first non-white president, crowned the day after King day, the last day of bush's administration 9/11 reversed. am i reading too much into it or recognizing a pattern? people got organized in the civil rights movement - this created a dialogue and things changed, that is a case and point of my point of the back and forth exchange with government. However - this movement was infiltrated and compromised AND then FRAMED to give the credit to OUR COMMON HERITAGE, King, the poster boy, dialoging with Johnson in the White House got too deep into the roots and inconsistencies and was destroyed and even his legacy became the property of our misguided conversation about civil rights, notice the FOCUS on King's relatively non-threatening thoughts vs. the ones in later life. now they frame King, IN THEIR EYES and line it up with THE GREAT ACHIEVEMENT OF OUR WAY OF LIFE and symbolically link it up with our first non-white president.

however it does not mean that this trajectory/intention is a given or even function the way that it is intended. 9/11 was meant to serve as a unification of our common consciousness through fear/trauma/rebirth - catalyst to war, yet it also sparked many to question the official version and how this catalyzing event was being used to further something along. the crowning of obama can serve a similar function - there are "NEW" issues on the table(but for a reason which ALSO serves the empire) BUT it does not have to be framed this way. It could mean the world is changing and with it the empire is being force to change its image, and supposedly its course, history is causing it to change. the superman(Nietzche) may create his own reality and his own rules, but the superman also realizes the necessity to answer to greater forces. the reference book of rhetoric that is always called on to defend OUR way of life, the lip-service ideals of the founding fathers, of the enlightenment, liberty, equality, fraternity - these are being called upon now - the call now is to put it into action to really be a beacon unto the
nations(but damn, they aren't getting out of everyone's hair, that's what really gets my GAOTU.) I can only think we've(there's that WE again -
can't seem to shake the hegemonic psychic vampires!) gone through this before with a man named FDR, public works, working together as a
community, we are all in it together and then bam - WWII, united in common cause.

and just why is change on the table. do we not consider why it is all of a sudden there? does it matter? and why must we wait on the time table of an empire who feels the time is right for it to be on the table? is it just taking advantage of a scrap from the table?

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." - MLK

my comment about feng shui was about re-arranging a house which is already built - which is what the house-cleaner obama is doing in the white house, not re-arranging feng shui where power relationships are questioned at their root. i thought this was cute:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/16/obama-chic-decorate-white-house-tough-times/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/16/obama-chic-decorate-white-house-tough-times/)

you said that what needs to be done and how it is done has not changed even though we have a new administration, i agree. and NO it does not HAVE to go this way - things are not SET IN STONE(pun intended) to the point of being immovable. i think this is the defeatist attitude that is encouraged and the use of paranoia and conspiracy and "figuring it all out" that can lead to this - but Rootsie was very right, people all over the world struggle day in and day out without losing focus and it is only right that we at least do as much.

when we focus on something it gives it power, so why give power by focussing on it - by trying to decode the symbolic instead of focussing on the work at hand. that is a good point, but i think they can go hand in hand.

Well lets just go to DC and get Tim McVey-ish on them?! Since the problem is within the symbols & rituals, lets go do it up alqaeda styleE!
About feng shui…actually I was going to bring up some other stuff about feng shui, but that would probably send you off on a zeitgusto seizure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_shui

Interesting isn’t it… Zeitgeist that is… I was invited to a couple of dinner parties that the main theme of the party was to view this movie. There are many people aware and lets (boo!) HOPE it doesn’t stop there…where we intellectually stand in awe of an imaginary bird in flight while a real-time mac truck smacks us. I think it is ego… like look they are not that much of a “secret society” or they are a “secret society” and I have them clocked every step of the way… who really cares… is it really relevant that we see the symbols and rituals they intend…. Is it really relevant that we recognize their ceremonies? Isn’t it illusions? They don’t actually “have the power” so the pomp and circumstance of it all is an illusion. I think that doing ones work in being ones best and putting forward ones best to others is a far large task that takes much energy… instead of putting energy into what is an illusion…. Are we conduits? …kind of like “short circuiting the positive and charging the negative”, eh?

“it IS being used as a part of who WE are, as a definition of WHERE we are at.”
Is it true though? Where are we? People want a change; people massively had an exchange with government like it hasn’t been in a great while. It is not just going to go down like a big gulp slurpy from 711. People are engaged. If even through an illusion, I feel that people are engaging the idea of change, hope, making things better… I feel that people that you speak of, who buy the illusion, are few…there is much noise out about holding obama accountable…(obamameter…http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/)/daily news debates. I do feel though there are many, many who are not engaged through the illusion, and I feel that we have to engage it through dialogue and action about what is change, hope and making things better…. ”WHERE we are at”… in ourselves, in our house, neighborhood, community, etc.. the work has indeed not changed.
It is not like “we have arrived... Hallelujah”. Race is being discussed in many different ways and places… the “dream yet unfulfilled” is brought front and center. Neither will people so easily suck on the lollipop of more war.

You didn’t answer my question “What American culture are you speaking of please? What is THE American culture?” Instead, you reply talking about “common heritage”, what common heritage? So now we are talking about heritage rather than culture. You bring up heritage so you can talk about symbolism more. “Our common heritage” is “a melting pot of heritages”. This is avoiding the question I asked. So I will answer my own question then. American culture is ego/self-centered/arrogance/greed of power (if you can tell me what one word for that would be…great!)… what is the glue that holds that together is not statues, calculated dates, etc… the glue is the isms of racism, sexism, classism, etc…People don’t stay plugged in because they just love the beat of the star-spangled banner so much… I said they have failed miserably in having the symbols and rituals be “the cohesive glue"…the rituals and symbols are not what holds it together… where do pppl plan their vacation get-away? Hedonistically on Lincoln's lap? … so I am saying, figuring out the ins and outs of their ceremonies, statues and puppeteer-ing is an illusion that diverts energy from addressing the real…maybe because what we do share still is that “common heritage” or “culture” you speak of which is ego, greed, self-centeredness, arrogance, etc…
“THAT is our collective heritage, our psychic energy focused”
Psychic energy focused?… no, not to me. Not in the way you are defining collective heritage… that’s called, our psychic energy disabled. Psychic energy focused on an illusion… we are neutralized/benched buddy or as Rootsie said…standing on the sidelines bitching…Psychic energy focused on an illusion…pouring water on rusty sparkplugs. "Our collective heritage" has been about promoting our psychic energy focused on arrogance, greed and self-interest and the isms are the waves/wires.
Scraps off the table? That’s the point again… they don’t have the power to even throw ppl a milk bone.
Like Rootsie has said, there have been every-day-people, that have been doing there every-day work for a long time… that is how things have moved and shifted… if even slightly. I don’t give “power” to empire. So Hitler was a puppet? and the holocaust a plot? So that FDR could have the acclaim of uniting us in a common cause? Change is on the table because that is what “we the people” have been pushing for… it is not biz as usual… I can give you a number of examples where people have been diligently working in “speaking truth to “power”… is it so far-fetched to think the ppl have had successes and people are upset by the mismanagement, so the pressure is on?
Again, I feel that giving power to this order by being immersed into its structure and function of symbols
“…but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice”
So how does that justice come? Taking apart the structure. Feng shui-ing it… first you have to know what structure you are messing with. The illusional structure… or the one based in reality…. I am guessing a good angle (pun intended) may be found by back tracking “injustice”. What is the source of injustice? I think chipping at the mortar called racism, sexism, classism, etc… may be a good start in getting at the blocks of ego, greed, arrogance, etc.
“my comment about feng shui was about re-arranging a house which is already built - which is what the house-cleaner obama is doing in the white house, not re-arranging feng shui where power relationships are questioned at their root. i thought this was cute:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/16/obama-chic-decorate-white-house-tough-times/”
I may be a girl…but…”Cute”, shoot…not!
I thought that was indeed what you were saying. That putting Obama in the white house was a power move? To cool the masses through “a necessary good faith gesture”. I am saying that people are not so stupid as you might like to think nor as easily duped. This is what Rootsie has been saying. So we should be concerned about figuring out and “AIR-ing” (they have no power but the waves we provide) their energy of illusional pageantry. It is an illusion. By getting ppl to suck into an illusion, negative energy is circuited. I think we would better off engaging things like change and hope. Re-circuiting the negative and magnifying the positive… the concepts of hope and change are not illusions. We indeed are energy channelers. It is biological and environmental. What is worthwhile engaging?

Well, there is a lot to what you both shared here.

360, are the 'ideals of the founding fathers' really only lip service? REALLY? They reflect most ancient ideas which I'm not sure have ever manifested on this earth. Whatever the intent, by tapping into that particular symbology have 'they' set something in motion which is beyond 'their' control? Absolutely, and the Sandinistas and Morales and Chavez et.al. would probably agree.
I don't think it's possible to argue about whether basic civil rights and separation of church and state and a coherent court system and free universal education improve people's lives. We would surely not be sitting here doing this if they didn't.

Starshyne is right that it's the 'isms' we need to be chipping away at, ramping up the conversation while people are in the mood to talk. I ask what kind of revolution. what sort of sudden turning over would truly usher in a new time for us on this planet without killing a few billion along the way? There are times for revolution. It seems to me that Evo Morales, in contrast to Chavez, has his eyes on the prize, step by step. Argentina, as the first recipient of 'shock therapy' is way ahead in thinking about how to reorganize ecoonomically for a sane society. There are heroes all over wresting water rights from Coca Cola and such, supporting people who are taking charge of their lives and their comunities. What this most privileged people here have to do is get in line and lend a hand. I think it's interesting what Starshyne said about a possible side-benefit of 'volunteerism': empathy.

I don't feel any different than I ever did about United States arrogance and exceptionalism--we have to address these and change the whole tenor of the conversation that happens here--but who is to do it? Politicians? Yeah right. What Obama seems to me to be doing is clearing some space for US to get down to work--I sincerely believe he knows what I know about the world and is looking for a way to get some essential changes roling, which is impossible without the engagement of people like us who have spent a long time in the wilderness getting a sense of what's wrong. I don't think it was time wasted out there.

It is not the forces of empire putting change on the table. It is no one dictating 'time for change.' Like Starshyne says, it's resonant. It calls us.

Symbols are incredibly powerful. Humans think, after all, in images that stand for deeper realer things. Manipulators of symbols, like Starshyne said, are bound to have it backfire. The rise of the modern nation-state may have been accident or imperial plot or inevitability, but here we are, so what do we do about it?

I think the only way to get rid of priesthoods and hierarchies of this or that is to get off the Platonic idea that there is some underlying order of perfection we have to get in sync with--maybe we just have to breathe and be. IN the meantime while we're waiting for the fruits of the essential inner changes that need to take place, we best be doing our little part, with not a lot of hope frankly, but the joy of being on the right side of history. I do believe in that.

I am not asking this 360 to criticize, but to reason: what are the fruits of tracking the symbolism these devils are slinging around? Are there secret offices of symbol manipulation? Are there forces at work beyond most humans' ability to see them? Does synchronicity exist? Do archetypes or something like them exist? Does focusing the mind on symbolic systems manifest them? So much to think about

With all its good ideas, the enlightenment is still laden with arrogance and based on a certain group of people's(the European) experience -
it has brought some good things to some, but a lot more suffering to others. I guess I find it offensive that the world - in the throws of the outcome of the enlightenment which has united the world economically, technologically, etc - has its natural resources, finance,
etc. concentrated in the hands of a few people who throw their weight around and in the process wiping away the vestiges of so many
cultures/peoples that are now delegitimized in the scope of their contributions to human history. I find it very interesting that
"socialism" and "capitalism" - at least in their concretized forms around which societies are organized have their origin in the enlightenment. This
is where we see the root of the seemingly divergent branches - Simon Bolivar and George Washington, the embryonic socialist French philosophers
and Adam Smith, etc. You mention Chavez and Morales - they are not Europeans and although their policies CAN be viewed in the light of enlightenment socialism - they are FIRSTLY coming from the perspective of people who were victims of the double prong of the European incursion - the church and then the enlightenment. How many of the virtues espoused in the enlightenment philosophy existed pre-European invasion in the indigenous populations, but we still want to see the Native American struggle in the framework of the great work of the enlightenment? This is an example of why I speak of the framework, the symbolisms, etc - these are important - even as you and I speak they are framing the discourse.

"basic civil rights and separation of church and state and a coherent court system and free universal education improve people's lives" - this
may be new to "us" but this is the frame in which it is set, it is loaded with assumptions and a perspective about the world. with everything that has been destroyed, with history erased/revised/rewritten, with the conquerers telling the stories - can we say this for certain? how much has been wiped clean? i think that an illusion we get caught up in is the paradigm that these
ideas are new/necessary when in reality the discourse is set in the European experience(I know you know this - I am just making a general statement.)
i.e. church/state separation - what does this actually mean? what is the difference between the church and the state really - a separation of church and state reflects perhaps an improvement in European societies - but is it necessary, address a need in other societies as a universal? and what is religion? - and how did the secular state become devoid of it when it is STILL based in assumptions about the world, when it is based around ritual, about belief in what it is, what is the difference?? basic civil rights - again, this is a european discourse - who said these did not exist in other societies? court system, free education - again, who is setting the discourse here? all these things reflect a discourse set up in european societies, they reflect the evolution of european societies, the needs of european societies - are these things universal? and since we start out with the exceptionalism of Europe, its improvements MUST of course be the best that humankind has achieved.

I think symbolism is important in the process of trying to tie together a culture/society - to give it a meaning, a focus and a trajectory. I don't know if there is necessarily some secret office of symbolism - it does sound kind of silly, but I don't know why it is silly to consider the importance of symbolism in light of how other societies employed it, such as the Egyptians/Aztecs/Mayans - planning, basing calenders/events on a timeframe - on date in the future, etc.. A Priesthood class in charge of the ordering of society - around events, natural/celestial and otherwise. These kept the society ordered/moving. Everything about the founding of the US is based around repetition of symbolisms and around natural/celestial events. Its seal employs a cipher and hidden message. Major events have occurred on a schedule, whether it is the atomic bomb or 9/11. I can see how these events are laden with INTENT/RITUAL and used to steer society in a certain direction - I see these in the light of the way older cultures employed statecraft. I would say that "they" don't have absolute control over the way things are interpreted though or what is spawned from their "creations" - as Mumia Abu Jamal pointed out in a recent interview - symbols often-time take on a life of their own. So I agree with you - "THEY" really don't have THE power and I like your positive spin that we should take advantage of this open area of dialogue that has been brought in the process of the election of a new president. however - i will not allow this to be framed in the context of the symbol that Obama represents in the context of the U.S. legacy. WHAT IS important is that people had their hearts activated by 8 years of shit, so yeah, let's take advantage of THAT.

the "tracking of symbolism" as you call it is a FRUIT in itself of my very rewarding study of history. of course this study of history is nothing if it is not applied to actions and i totally agree that the usual spin on "conspiracy theory" tends to seize gears rather than have us move forward since it lends to the conception of an "us" and a "them" - usually with "them" having all the power. i think however my "spin" is different - i understand that what "they" are doing is really nothing new to the world of civilizations - it has to to with order. it is not something to be afraid of, it is something that just is - and if it is scary and we don't like the trajectory - it is because it indeed is a reflection of what WE collectively have allowed it to become.

So yes -
** "Manipulators of symbols, like Starshyne said, are bound to have it backfire. The rise of the modern nation-state
may have been accident or imperial plot or inevitability, but here we are, so what do we do about it?" **

i mean maybe i'm just pissed off and the punk rocker in me doesn't want to submit to the fact that i must think of change on the terms of "the way it is and not how i want it to be" (to paraphrase immortal technique).

I have limitedly engaged the reasonings here, in part, because of the general tone of a few.
I purposely engaged this reasoning as an arrogant, smart ass. As a reflection of the attitude or types of reasonings I have seen here and on the other boards by a few. Making points in the style of “funny”retorts… It seems that when it gets a bit too much of the taste of one’s own medicine the boys run away or cry foul. I do know that in the end I am responsible for my own actions, but hoped maybe this may change some perspectives of how this type of reasoning feels to others. I know and see the vibe was felt to have more tolerance.

360, you reason rather passive aggressive or rather aggressive passive (in MN we call it “minnesota nice”). You said I have insinuated your points. I disagreed with your points. (where we are, psychic energy focused”, feng shui –gestures of good faith, scraps from the table,…)….and the main point about the glue holding it together.
Just because you now say that my points (or what you call insinuations) are a waste of energy doesn’t make it so. It is a matter of perspective indeed. Knowing what power they actually have. You may have me clocked as insinuating your point after you didn’t answer the american culture question. I answered the question with my opinion of the answer.
”As Starshyne pointed out - "symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation" - which harkens to the soul of this nation, symbolisms, ritual that are the stuff of the cohesive glue of the culture, just as they have been of all empires past.”
I think you may have now changed your mind about the glue?… but to me this has been your main point and that Obama/change/hope are just another chapter in their plan. I disagreed with your perspective. Thus I disagree with whatever points you make in support of that premise.

It is not just about being “removed from our ability to make a difference”. It is also about being removed from our responsibility. As you know via the enlightenment we have been and are privileged. We have a responsibility to address the arrogance, individualism, greed in the manifestations of sexism, racism, classism, etc….
Otherwise, in the inverse it is like saying… who can blame us for being racist and sexist… the onus is really on the system or the ones that put the system in place. In my opinion the “john” is just as much responsible as the pimp. See, its this mentality … it is a thought process that remains untouched… it is this thought process which puts the blame outside of oneself to an elusive order (what can we say with certainty is the plan or part of the plan)… in which one does not recognize the privilege and nature of “having a dinner party” discussing the conjecture of what the master plan of “them” is. Treks through history can be rewarding. Our white European history can inform us the privilege and status we now have in this paradigm. After so many years, we have yet to change that. Collective responsibility.

“i must think of change on the terms of "the way it is and not how i want it to be" (to paraphrase immortal technique).”
I have learned much from people like Immortal technique. Although, he has a different ancestral history and experience than we do as whites.
I know others have as well… but I have BEEN pissed off for some time now about the way it is and not how I want it to be (that’s why I said the work has not changed)… the ideology of supremacy signing me up on the dotted line of privilege and benefits in this society has pissed me off for some time. Its been something I don’t want which is easy enough to say in word…but much work in the realm of “change” in ingrained consciousness in the pealing back of layers of privilege and arrogance and attempts in finding ways of legitimate action to do away with the paradigm. I no longer see “us” and “them”. I know Rootsie has written a few articles on here about that. We are them because privilege has said so. This could bring up a whole other conversation as to if we are in the rightful position to make judgments about the mind frame of a light skin black leader or blacks as a supporting populous of this leader. I feel that from my white perspective, it is best for me to put my work in engaging the issues of racism, sexism, classism that have very real every day implications. These things underlay(hidden/the secret society) the political issues .

"That putting Obama in the white house was a power move? To cool the masses through “a necessary good faith gesture”. I am saying that people are not so stupid as you might like to think nor as easily duped."

* For the record, I DON'T think people are stupid for voting for Obama - I understand the many complexities and reasons why people would do so. I know many people who I have a lot of respect for voted for Obama and had very good reasons.

Look at this:

"Well lets just go to DC and get Tim McVey-ish on them?! Since the problem is within the symbols & rituals, lets go do it up alqaeda styleE!"

* I mean is this not an insinuation? I felt this was a dramatic mis-statement of where I am coming from, like a jab.

"But I have to say that my recent shift is partly due to seeing my own and others' assumption that they know all this stuff that others don't somehow places them above the fray--like using information to bludgeon people into a sense of helplessness--this won't work, that won't work because 'they' are working at this whole other level that only the super-perceptive among us can discern...

The suggestion that such thinking gives is that anyone doing any work to change things is just being naive, if not stupid..."

* I think when I started learning all this stuff I initially got fearful. I admit that - it is some heavy stuff. At the same time though - I didn't take it to start seeing people as "stupid" and people working for change as "dupes." To be honest I have thought of myself as someone who has tried to see the good in people and that has not stopped over the years - it has only intensified. I have tried to see things in different lights and that is why I am thankful and open to the views expressed in this reasoning. It honestly is very refreshing to hear and I take it to heart.

I think there are other ways to look at the ideas that I have presented. I understand how this "mode of thought" can lead to a psychic environment of know-it-all-ism combined with a feeling of help-lessness. However - can't it also lead to getting involved on a local level, questioning our faith in the system and trying to make meaningful changes within our own lives? I think it is more about balance and recognition that we do not "know it all" - it is humility and the possibilities that blossom from this perspective. Deep down I appreciate the call to do house-cleaning in my own mind/house in regards to what delving into all this "stuff" really means and if it actually results in me seeing people as "stupid," etc. It makes me get defensive though because I KNOW that I am not coming from that place and I resent the fact that in some ways what I present is taken like that.

Quote from: Rootsie on January 29, 2009, 02:37:51 PM

"is it really so "under control" that we can't make a difference and anyone
who tries is just a dupe? isn't this in itself an admission of defeat and
an excuse not to get involved?"

That's why I said somewhere back there that the DEEPEST deep-cover agents may be on the extreme left. In fact I was told of one with a popular (among us) website.

The Sandinistas et. al. used the language of the Declaration in their own documents--my point was that those enlightenment ideas about the Rights of Man (sic) reach back into ancient, pre-Empire times. Tom Paine and John Locke didn't invent them. This is why they resonate--and why, I guess, they are so ripe for manipulation. I would like to think that humans are wired for freedom. For the vast majority of RECORDED human history, the poor have been under the whip. The big difference now is that the planet is understood as a whole planet, comprehensible as one because of instantaneous global communication, and it is increasingly understood that whatever our fate, it is a common one. I think that the revolutionary implications of this are just beginning to be felt.

"That is why the resonate-and why, I guess, they are so ripe for manipulation." I think that is a good point - I think this is the same with religions, etc.

Indeed while there has been a setup of this global communications by the powers that be, there is no telling what that has led to or what that will lead to - I think that is a good example of your point about "them" not having all the control. There is no telling what we collectively can and will do with access to information and how that will effect the "established order." I think the music industry is an example - with the proliferation of ability for artists to market their own music to an audience without the help of the major record labels - the recording industry has been forced to change. You no longer need to be signed to one of the traditional labels to be popular anymore. Record companies have lost revenue because they don't "own" the "means of production" so-to-speak anymore - global communication has made them more irrelevant. I think this is why they try to scoop up the means of communication once they gain momentum as is the case with MySpace and steer it in a particular direction using the cultural glue of greed/ego-tism and selfishness(as Starshyne mentioned). Whereas it could be a tool of revolutionary implication if it were utilized correctly.

Rootsie

GENERAL => General Board => Topic started by: Rootsie on January 02, 2009, 03:33:54 PM